The fools of MSFN forums

Postby Non Hic » 2013-02-26 00:49

The fools of MSFN (http://www.msfn.org) forums, "Where People Go To Know"... my eye ball. Those morons locked out one of the best threads in history of computing (http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/155290- ... pressions/)!

How dare them?

That is one of the most disrespectful behaviours toward their users (customers) they could have done as we specifically told them "DO NOT TOUCH THIS THREAD!" ...and who are we? The ones who were actually doing all the talk in that thread. The ones who donated real money to MSFN. The ones filling their forums with our fresh content! The ones generating visitors and new users (customers)!

I'm sorry I ever donated even one single dollar to them. I should have known better, that an important topic never is allowed to continue on such forums.

It is fully obvious we were way too close to the truth which made it very uncomfortable for them.

Locking threads, is such a sinister thing to do. :evil:
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Postby Non Hic » 2013-02-26 01:14

It is amazing how they just want to shut people up! Who are they to decide what we would like to speak about? It is rather easy to just blame it as "off topic" when actually the thread has been going "off topic" for MONTHS! Obviously someone leaned on them to shut us all up. Well, not as long as we have the Internet!
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Postby Non Hic » 2013-02-26 01:25

Some person who shall remain anonymous just wrote a very sad thing which I would like to share:

been on many forums
lived same s*** happened here
one just have to accept it and let go


No offence to this person but that is exactly why the filthy behaviour of locking threads continues. People accept it! It is a kind of Stockholm syndrome or perhaps just plain slave mentality. Well, I will not and do not accept it.

No human shall put his dirty feet on me and I would "accept it and let go". NEVER.
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Postby Non Hic » 2013-02-26 11:26

The fools of MSFN re-opened that thread again but they have shown their true faces. There is no way I will create any content at MSFN anymore.

That place is dead anyway, latest "news" is from almost 2 months ago and not much activity in there at all except that one thread so it won't be a big loss not being around in MSFN. Not to mention their gigantic 1000000 subsections they have which no one really uses. It actually takes FIVE (5) hits on the "Page down" button of the keyboard just to see all the forum subsections they got. Ludicrous.

The only reason I even found out about MSFN, was that one thread. Their behaviour shows how clueless and/or sinister they are.

...take heed of the false prophets, who come unto you in sheep's clothing, and inwardly are ravening wolves.
From their fruits ye shall know them...


;)
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Postby Non Hic » 2013-02-26 17:17

hah! I created a thread on MSFN to let them know what I think of them by linking to this thread which they deleted fairly quickly of course. Blaming it to be a "duplicate" even though the other reference to this thread was NOT a thread but a simple reply in middle of some other discussion.

It clearly was not a duplicate at all. There was only and only ONE thread and it was posted in the proper "Site & Forum Issues - Having site/forum issues, or got a question or suggestion to ask us?" section.

I think it is pretty clear where they stand now. Especially after one of the moderators' response to CharlotteTheHarlot, where he asked legitimate questions: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/162150- ... p__1031414 but basically got bamboozled by the moderators with an almost insulting (imho) reply to his concerns: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/162150- ... p__1031422.

Cache of both questions and their response follows below in case they delete that thread too.

CharlotteTheHarlot wrote:Posted Today, 03:27 PM
Jeez, I go away for a few hours and all he!! breaks loose! Trying now to get up to speed on what happened, but there is very little hard information from the moderators that I can even find.

First of all, I am not a mod here so I am not privy to the backchannel discussion that has occurred. It would be nice if they would explain What problem has been brought to their attention and by who? Informing the members helps to prevent incorrect speculation.

One big question is this: Is there external pressure being applied on MSFN or is this completely an in-house matter? The answer is key to journalistic integrity and as it stands I see no way to answer it.

Another item is this: What is this slavish paradigm of trying to keep all threads completely on-topic ( whatever that means )? I have said before that doing this 99% makes sense with those targeted, highly focused specific discussion threads, but not all. Why this is so weird is precisely because the name of the thread "Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions" is not one of those focused topics. Furthermore, is "on-topic" defined by the thread OP? If so, why can't Jorge simple modify the thread title to "Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions" adding a subtitle of "... and related controversy and rants" ( or similar ) to satisfy this urge to stay "on-topic". This begs the question however, if that alone is not sufficient, then something larger must be afoot, correct?

It makes absolutely no sense at all for that thread to be anywhere else except for in the Windows 8 forum. None! It contains tons of information from the Beta to present. And we are left with the odd case where "First Impressions" is still in the original location. Furthermore, that is a very active thread in both Views and Posts. I cannot see the detailed statistics but it must rank up there in the top ten most active. This generates real traffic and site views which aids Google page-rank, and it is feeding lots of topical red meat into Google subject searches. This is not normally considered a bad thing. So what possible reason justifies burying such a thread?

Obviously there is activity taking place behind the scenes. Many boards are administered in quasi-democratic fashion ( perhaps weighting votes from moderators according to seniority or privilege ), so: Was there some kind of voting going on? Maybe you can just inform us if '3 out of 5 moderators wanted it closed' or whatever. Or much more troubling, Is there a rogue moderator ( or sponsoring member or whatever ) that is causing needless trouble and controversy?

This is Xper's forum so he ultimately decides what goes, so these are obviously just friendly questions and suggestions. But I sure wish Xper would just state here what his thinking is on this matter. After all, ultimately it is his reputation that can suffer, either from incorrect speculation because of the lack of information given, or when there is absolutely needless drama from his "staff" causing trouble in the first place.

To Xper, I'm not sure it has ever been discussed here, and I might regret even bringing this up, but I think the Moderators and supervisors really should disclose their affiliation ( if any ) to Microsoft. IMHO, this is an incredibly pertinent issue ( and it is not only about Microsoft, because if threads were bashing Firefox or Apple, then affiliation with those companies would also be relevant ). For example, If Microsoft employees we allowed to moderate threads that criticize Microsoft, that would be an undeniable conflict of interest, with respect to the concept of journalism ( the general definition, but not necessarily the modern "free press" ). Again, it is your forum, but speaking for myself I would definitely be disapproving of any moderators who didn't recuse themselves from an obvious conflict of interest. It would really offend me because it tells me they are loyal first to their real employer rather than my board, and I could never really trust such a person.

But again, here I am wildly speculating, and it is precisely because of the lack of information! I hope that Xper steps in and clarifies whether this is a mountain or a mole hill. Especially in this day and age where other sites will pounce on it if Microsoft is seen as influencing free speech. You will actually be doing Microsoft a favor by clearing up the controversy.


Tripredacus wrote:Posted Today, 04:03 PM

CharlotteTheHarlot, on Today, 03:27 PM, said:
It makes absolutely no sense at all for that thread to be anywhere else except for in the Windows 8 forum. None! It contains tons of information from the Beta to present.

Many boards are administered in quasi-democratic fashion ( perhaps weighting votes from moderators according to seniority or privilege ), so: Was there some kind of voting going on? Maybe you can just inform us if '3 out of 5 moderators wanted it closed' or whatever.


The unfortunate nature of the thread going so off topic and become more generalised it the reason it was moved to General Discussion. Originally the idea was to put it in Technology News but users expressed that putting it so low on the forum index would decrease its views. I suppose that is possible, but either way, you could say it has been upgraded... GD is fairly unused. I wish there was an easy way to split the topic so to keep the original "impressions" part separate from the "news and reaction" posts from later on.

The topic has been brought up multiple times and was put up to a vote. There wasn't any specific "we must do this" type thing, more of a "what should we do with this thread." I do not think I should tell you exactly what the vote results were, but I can tell you that no one chose to just close it.
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Postby Non Hic » 2013-03-01 20:05

In short, I refuse to create content in a dead inactive forum like MSFN, especially after how they behaved.
So I'll be as clear as possible: To hell with them. Fuck them. Let them eat cake!
8-)
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Postby CharlotteTheHarlot » 2013-03-13 14:49

Tripredacus Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:03 AM ( http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/162150-what-happened-to-deeper-impressions-thread/page__view__findpost__p__1031422 )

The unfortunate nature of the thread going so off topic and become more generalised it the reason it was moved to General Discussion. Originally the idea was to put it in Technology News but users expressed that putting it so low on the forum index would decrease its views. I suppose that is possible, but either way, you could say it has been upgraded... GD is fairly unused. I wish there was an easy way to split the topic so to keep the original "impressions" part separate from the "news and reaction" posts from later on.

The topic has been brought up multiple times and was put up to a vote. There wasn't any specific "we must do this" type thing, more of a "what should we do with this thread." I do not think I should tell you exactly what the vote results were, but I can tell you that no one chose to just close it.


Tripredacus Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:41 PM ( http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/162150-what-happened-to-deeper-impressions-thread/page__view__findpost__p__1031445 )

The topic title should probably stay the same, since most people recognize it.

No Microsoft employee has caused this problem.


dencorso Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:55 PM ( http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/162150-what-happened-to-deeper-impressions-thread/page__view__findpost__p__1031463 )

This is and has been, from the start, completely an in-house matter. Rest assured of that. MSFN remains an independent entity, as it has always been, from the start.

Now, CharlotteTheHarlot, the thread has been moved, it's now located in a place where it has the same or even more visibility than before, no content or info was lost and it remains available for everybody. Let's leave it at that.

This thread I'm posting in right now has really no reason to continue. The problem is solved.


Aside from the stuff I was told behind the scenes in confidence, these quotes constitute the entire "official" word of what happened there. It is very disappointing because they are both decent guys from what I can tell ( particularly dencorso who is definitely one of the good guys who came up "from the streets" so to speak and has real skillz particularly in the esoteric Win9x universe ). Thus it is disheartening to read these bureaucratic responses to genuine concerns. IMHO, clearly some anonymous cowardly Softie got his panties stuck in his vagina and needlessly caused some ruckus behind the scenes there. I especially detest that deflection of stating that the thread was 'only being moved' when in reality it was killed, and then later resuscitated due to the perseverance of all interested parties.

It is at the very least a soft censorship although the original goal was undoubtedly pure hard censorship ( 'they took a vote' ) by whoever that original "snake in the grass" over there may be. If that person wasn't such a panty-wearing little girl he would have the courage to self-identify himself somewhere, maybe here or at MSFN, and proudly proclaim their actions of trying to muffle dissent against the MicroBorg Windows 8 walled-garden empire. So come on out of the shadows, coward! At least over here we can go mano-a-mano without censorship or offended sensibilities. Bring it, homey.

It is really painful to review these facts because in my opinion MSFN is so much larger than any of her members and especially her "staff". I can't criticize it. There are incredible amounts of information and projects blowing apart all the so-called limits that MicroCorp arbitraily set for Win9x and other operating systems while pursuing their cynical planned obsolescence. That place is made by its contributing posters, not its "staff". Speaking for myself, I'm only there to help people whenever I can, for free, in my ever vanishingly small spare time. That particular "Deeper Impressions" thread concerning Windows 8 falls right in the same vein because we are literally trying to save Microsoft from itself.

We shall be redeemed in due time.
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Postby Fool's design » 2013-03-14 03:07

Don't know why this topic was in the "Junks" section. It's moved to "General discussion" now. Any old link will not die, even if linked to the old section. We renamed some forums and this one probably got stuck in the "Junks" and forgotten about.
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Postby Non Hic » 2013-03-14 03:20

CharlotteTheHarlot wrote:...Aside from the stuff I was told behind the scenes in confidence, these quotes constitute the entire "official" word of what happened there. It is very disappointing because they are both decent guys from what I can tell ( particularly dencorso who is definitely one of the good guys who came up "from the streets" so to speak and has real skillz particularly in the esoteric Win9x universe ). Thus it is disheartening to read these bureaucratic responses to genuine concerns. IMHO, clearly some anonymous cowardly Softie got his panties stuck in his vagina and needlessly caused some ruckus behind the scenes there. I especially detest that deflection of stating that the thread was 'only being moved' when in reality it was killed, and then later resuscitated due to the perseverance of all interested parties.

It is at the very least a soft censorship although the original goal was undoubtedly pure hard censorship ( 'they took a vote' ) by whoever that original "snake in the grass" over there may be. If that person wasn't such a panty-wearing little girl he would have the courage to self-identify himself somewhere, maybe here or at MSFN, and proudly proclaim their actions of trying to muffle dissent against the MicroBorg Windows 8 walled-garden empire. So come on out of the shadows, coward! At least over here we can go mano-a-mano without censorship or offended sensibilities. Bring it, homey.

It is really painful to review these facts because in my opinion MSFN is so much larger than any of her members and especially her "staff". I can't criticize it. There are incredible amounts of information and projects blowing apart all the so-called limits that MicroCorp arbitraily set for Win9x and other operating systems while pursuing their cynical planned obsolescence. That place is made by its contributing posters, not its "staff". Speaking for myself, I'm only there to help people whenever I can, for free, in my ever vanishingly small spare time. That particular "Deeper Impressions" thread concerning Windows 8 falls right in the same vein because we are literally trying to save Microsoft from itself.

We shall be redeemed in due time.

You know, that remark you said about the Sword of Damocles hanging over threads was so true. It is a kind of, as you so well put it "soft censorship". Political in nature I suppose. Beside the fact that generally I detest thread locking, they knew exactly that doing so even temporarily would kill all the enthusiasm when everyone would see the Sword of Damocles is hanging there.

I could never in my wildest dream have imagined they would lock that thread frankly. It brought them customers, paying mind you (me for example) and it was bringing a little life into an almost dead MSFN but I'm with you on this, someone did something. This was no accident.

At first, I was going to cache that entire thread but I changed my mind because it would take almost 14 days, 8 hours of work each day to do so and on top of it, I think it is better that we create new and original content in here instead of just copying a dead thread.

New and original content will have a much more punch power in here because they will not be able to shut this place down. OK, sure, everyone has their price. I'm not pretending I don't have a price... but my price is not a few bucks... or a scary letter from someone. My price is VERY high. To shut this place down, they would have to spend a LOT of money, I'm talking six figure numbers, so I can safely say, everything we talk about here is safe from deletion.
8-) :lol: 8-)
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Postby CharlotteTheHarlot » 2013-03-15 04:12

I did save MHT copies of all the pages ( my forum view preference is always set for maximum posts, I think 200 or more per page ). So it is like 15 large MHT files complete with all elements including embedded photos stored in MIME format. Naturally all the original formatting is included as well. These can be placed somewhere for safekeeping I suppose, and I believe that they can be opened directly in a browser too.

( Interestingly I discovered yet another bug in Opera that screws up the MIME format but it is recoverable with some quick editing. )

About MSFN. I suppose it can be considered relatively dead. But it's the content that counts. And the posts that go up these days are usually content rich, particularly in the area I enjoy, the obscure esoteric ins and outs of Windows and DOS and related. I still won't criticize the place itself, just the anonymous coward that caused the un-necessary trouble.
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